tough on the crisis rocking the APC, saying the party is an organisation of pretenders who call themselves progressives; even as he expressed optimism that the prediction of Awolowo will soon be fulfilled. Excerpts:
How do you feel about the last elections as a PDP chieftain?
Well, we have put that behind us now. The APC is now in government and President Muhammadu Buhari is the leader of the country. And we of the PDP have accepted our roles; that we have to play the role of that of the opposition. And we are not dismayed or embarrassed by it. We intend to do the job very well, because we believe that if we do the job very well the Nigerian people will be able to assess us again and allow us to return back to power in 2019. So, the election has come and gone. And the APC is in government, that is all.
Do you see the outcome of the elections as the result of former President Goodluck Jonathan’s weakness or that of the struggle for power among members of the party which caused crisis, leading to the defection of many to APC ?
No! I don’t see it from the angle of the fact that former President Goodluck Jonathan did anything wrong. Well, God has a way of doing things for mankind. And God has been very kind to Nigeria. We of the PDP worked very hard, believing that we will win. And it later turned out that we didn’t win election. And President Jonathan did not have it against Buhari or against anybody about the election. Some of us have reservations about what went on in that election. But I have said times without number that I never intend to talk about the election now. I intend to raise those issues sometime towards the end of the year. By then passion would have gone down, nerves would have come down. And many would be able to look at things objectively as they are. Having said that, Professor Jega who superintended over the election is no more there. He has gone. He has served his term and new person has been appointed in his place.
But I want to say that for Nigeria to progress, for Nigeria to survive, there must be spirit of give and take in the mind of all of us. We must not allow the evil days of the past to return. There were some things that happened during that election that one was not happy about. For instance, underage voting that happened in many parts of the North. And I am not trying to bring the hands of the clock back, underage voting took place. And not only that, this issue of Permanent Voters Card and the card readers was absolutely against the run of play. And there was no need for any over-dramatisation of this card issue by the INEC (Independent National Electoral Commission), but they did.
Upon all said and done, the election has been lost and won, and the APC has been declared winner . And we of the PDP has been declared the official opposition party, and so be it. We are ready to cooperate with anybody who will want to move the democratic process forward. The ball is now in the court of APC, and in the court of President Muhammadu Buhari to ensure that the wheel of the democratic progress is continuously pushed to that which will make for the survival of the country.
You have been known to be a progressive man in the past, do you have any regret that you are not part of the current group of progressives now that they have just formed government at the federal level for the first time in the history of Nigeria?
Well, you see it depends on what you mean by this progressive thing. The progressives toga has been bastardised. I mean, you have strange bird fellows who now call themselves progressives. And I asked myself a question. What actually constitute a man being called progressive. I am in the PDP. What makes Nigerians to believe that the PDP has not got people who have all the chances of this world of calling themselves progressives as opposed to the APC. And so, apparently we must be very conscious of the way we use the term progressives. It is quite correct that in Nigeria today al l the political parties are struggling to ensure that they polarise the political system in a way that eventually Nigerians will be able to know that this party is progressive and that party is reactionary. But how do you determine that now. It is difficult.
All the manifestos of the PDP, APC and other parties in Nigeria are similar. How people are now able to say that they are progressives is baffling to me. There was a time when the late Uncle Bola Ige virtually participated in the drafting of the manifestos of many parties at that time. And nothing has changed substantially to say that this party is not progressive or that party is reactionary. So, we must be very careful about it. All we must work for, particularly we the politicians, is to work in a way whereby the political parties in Nigeria will be able to embrace the ideological toga so that Nigerians can differentiate the parties on the basis of ideology. But as it is now, no. It is not there. All those who are saying that they are progressives are pretenders. They are mere pretenders. I mean, we must be careful with the way we use the word “progressive” But eventually it is going to serve Nigeria better if our political parties embrace ideology and we are able to classify our political parties on the basis of ideological orientation.
Now, if you’re asked to mention those who are progressives in Nigeria who will you refer to?
Well, they all believe that PDP is not accommodating progressives. And that they in the APC are the progressives. That is the way they look at it. So, good luck to them. But all I know is that having a progressive party is a matter of process. How we develop from one process to the other. And I know very well that there are so many elements in the PDP; who have progressive thoughts, progressive inclinations and progressive ideas. And there are also some of them in the APC who can rarely chest out to meet what I have mentioned about PDP people. So, all we can do is to ensure we don’t allow unnecessary bickering, unnecessary antagonism to set political parties debate in a way that will offend against the loss of objectivity and truth.
Are you saying this because there are quite a lot of people in the APC now, calling themselves progressives, who were formally in the PDP?
Not even that. Some people left PDP and joined APC. Immediately they joined the APC started calling them progressives. So, it’s a laughable matter. And those in APC who left to join PDP are no longer progressives. For them to say because I am in PDP I am no longer progressive, that is their problem. I know myself. I know that I will never go against all the laws that offer protection to poor people in this country. I am always by the side of the poor and the needy. I was trained by one of the greatest African leaders of all time, late Papa Obafemi Awolowo, I believe everybody knew that when Awolowo was alive he was very much pro-poor people. Everything he did was to ensure the freedom and liberation of poor people. And that is what I stand for. As a minister in this country, I say it with the fear of almighty God, that no person born of a woman can come out and say that when I was a minister that these are the things that I amassed. I am 72 years old now, the same age with President Buhari, and I want to say with every emphasis at my command and with the greatest respect to the Nigeria people, I have served their interest. I have been to jail, fighting for what I believe in. And I have never regretted for one minute that this happened to me. And apparently time will decide and determine what I have been in Nigeria politics. I am trying to write my memoir now. I believe that when I finish the memoirs they will be presented to the Nigerian people for assessment. And that will stand for me, to defend me, even long after I might have gone to the world beyond, in terms of what really I was in politics. So, I have no problem with anybody.
We gathered that Awolowo once predicted that a time will come when progressive elements and some reactionary elements would come together to form a government, do you see the APC fulfilling that prediction now?
What Papa Awolowo was saying at that time was the thesis and anti-thesis theory. That the best of all the political parties we had in the 2nd Republic will come together. And the reactionaries among them will also come together. We have not reached the stage yet, but we are now virtually going to a situation whereby circumstances on the field of play will determine which alliance one will really associate with. And eventually we are going to have that polarisation which Papa Awolowo talked about. And those who are of the same mind will come together, and those who are of different minds as regards how to liberate the people will also come together. So, that is the thesis and anti-thesis theory which Papa Awolowo talked about. It is something which nobody has been able to falsify because it still stands. We are gradually moving towards it, and eventually we are going to get there.
Are you saying Nigeria is gradually moving towards fulfilling the predictions?
Yes! We are gradually moving towards it.
If you look at the opposition, the members of the APC formed against themselves at the National Assembly lately what would you say?
(Cuts in) Well, you see we should not turn what has happened to the APC at the National Assembly as something that we should celebrate and feel that we have done something which Napoleon could not do. I mean, it is part of the struggles you are going to get in developing nations of the world to arrive at a situation whereby we have a government that cares for the people. And we have an opposition party that cares for the people. I have said it clearly that the APC definitely mismanaged the problem the party had in the National Assembly. It was pure mismanagement. But it is a learning process for them, in the sense that, one: this country can no longer tolerate a situation whereby certain persons are imposed on the people. That problem of imposition was one of the things that created problems in PDP. So, the APC must run away from it. They must allow democracy to blossom.
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